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Smoke Check: Holmgren Coming to D.C.?
By Jamie Mottram | December 19, 2008
Jason La Canfora is wondering if Mike Holmgren is in Daniel Snyder’s crosshairs, and Holmgren, who coaches his final game for the Seahawks next Sunday, is already talking about itches, which raises all kinds of questions.
One year after handing Jim Zorn the keys and seeing him win at least seven games, is it even possible? With Snyder, we know the answer is “you bet your ass it is.” But, casting aside whether Holmgren would actually be interested in the job, the larger question is if it would be good for Washington.
Hiring Holmgren a year ago, had he been available, would’ve made perfect sense. In 17 seasons in Seattle and Green Bay, he’s had 12 playoff teams, three NFC champions and one Super Bowl champion. On the Bill Walsh coaching tree, he’s a sturdy limb to Zorn’s sprouting twig.
But this isn’t a year ago. This is, for good or for ill, Zorn’s team now. And bringing in Holmgren means bouncing — or at least demoting — Zorn. In a way, it means starting all over again and possibly making things more pear-shaped than they already are.
The other variable is the possibility of making Holmgren, as he was in Seattle, not only head coach but also general manager. You know our feelings on Vinny Cerrato (i.e. fire him yesterday), but the Holmgren experiment didn’t work for the Seahawks. During his four seasons as coach/GM they made the playoffs once. During the six seasons since he relinquished GM duties they’ve made it five times.
I prefer to focus here strictly on the head coaching role, and I’m torn up about it. I like Zorn, and I want to believe in him. But it’s been a long way down from 6-2 to 7-7, and, though I’d like to see him get time to develop, Holmgren has been a hell of a coach.
So what do you think? Let us know in the poll (even if you’re not a Skins fan, try to vote in our best interests) and kick it around in the comments.
Update: Because the brothers Mottram are hopeless rumor mongers, Chris covers this over at The Sporting Blog as well.
Topics: Redskins, Zorn Star | 7 Comments »
December 19th, 2008 at 11:03 AM
It would be perfect for Holmgren to find the talent and Zorn to keep it medium.
Fire Vinny Now.
December 19th, 2008 at 11:16 AM
I’m kinda shocked that Zorn is winning 73% of the vote. That’s some faith right there.
As for Holmgren finding the talent, see paragraph five above.
December 19th, 2008 at 11:26 AM
You could make the argument that Holmgren is over rated.
He won in Green Bay with a Hall of Fame QB that seemed to disregard the game plan completely.
He won in Seattle with Hasselback. But Hasselback has openly said that hes struggling without Zorn.
Maybe Holmgren just hit the coaching lottery by getting Favre and Zorn dropped in his lap.
Not saying that is definitely the case but its worth thinking about.
December 19th, 2008 at 12:23 PM
i think Zorn has done a ok job this year but with the way we draft and the bust we sign in free agency, this might be the best group of plyers that we have. and with that, they are either coming into the prime of their careers or getting to the peak of them, and we need to capitalize on it as soon as possible. if it is 2-3 years before Zorn reaches full potential, we may be just like the Seahawks in 2002. Make a deep playoff run, make super bowl, win or lose super bowl and then be in rebuilding mode the following years. but with a proven coach (and teacher) we may be able to make some noise now.
December 19th, 2008 at 12:23 PM
I actually think Holmgren really is done as a head coach. Without Zorn this season – granted, it was injury plagued – they couldn’t even run a consistent offense against the god-awful defenses of the NFC West (not to mention the losing). He hasn’t had to tangle in a division that had the kind of competition and talent levels – second best in pro football after the NFC South – that the East represents. FedEx doesn’t exactly have the homefield advantage you get in Seattle, either.
I wonder if the Holmgren as GM talk would be that bad. Holmgren clearly couldn’t handle both hats, but look at the rosters he built, and they’re clearly several impressive guys on his teams. But looking closer, I just don’t think he’s a huge improvement from Vinny. Let’s just use the First Round picks under his tenure as examples:
1999 Lamar King DE Saginaw Valley State
2000 Shaun Alexander RB Alabama
2000 Chris McIntosh OT Wisconsin
2001 Koren Robinson WR North Carolina State
2001 Steve Hutchinson G Michigan
2002 Jerramy Stevens TE Washington
2003 Marcus Trufant CB Washington State
2004 Marcus Tubbs DT Texas
2005 Chris Spencer C Mississippi
2006 Kelly Jennings CB Miami
2007 Josh Wilson CB Maryland (2nd rounder, 1st traded for Deion Branch)
2008 Lawrence Jackson DE Southern California
Let’s do the math: Shaun Alexander is done now, but was one of the best RBs in the league for five years and won an MVP. Steve Hutchinson is arguably his best pick, a beast of a guard picked 17th overall – sadly for the Hawks, he’s now in Minnesota.
Trufant is a high quality cornerback, but not one of the top ten in the league. Solid but by no means amazing.
Jerramy Stevens, goat of Super Bowl XL, never came close to being worth a first round pick.
Josh Wilson is a fairly average nickel back, again not worth a first rounder.
Smith, McIntosh, and Tubbs were highly touted prospects who are out of football thanks to injury and poor play.
Koren Robinson is obviously one of the biggest headcases in the NFL today.
Jackson – it’s too early to say. Looking pretty average so far.
I count 2 great picks, 1 solid pick, 1 average pick, 2 below average picks, 3 awful picks, 1 headcase and 1 unwise first rounder trade for an average wide receiver. For comparison’s sake, let’s look at Vinny’s drafts:
2002 Patrick Ramsey QB Tulane
2003 Taylor Jacobs WR Florida (2nd rounder, 1st traded for Laveranues Coles)
2004 Sean Taylor S Miami (FL)
2005 Carlos Rogers CB Auburn
2005 Jason Campbell QB Auburn
2006 Rocky McIntosh LB Miami (FL) (2nd rounder, 1st traded for Campbell pick)
2007 LaRon Landry S LSU
2008 Devin Thomas WR MSU (2nd rounder, 1st traded for picks)
Patrick Ramsey never produced at a first round level – he’s strongarmed guy who can’t read a defense. A career backup.
Taylor Jacobs never produced at even a 2nd round level. He’s clearly the biggest bust on this list.
Sean Taylor is obviously the best talent on this list, and choosing him over Kellen Winslow was clearly a wise decision (despite the tragedy that followed).
I’d grade Carlos Rogers, Jason Campbell, and Rocky McIntosh as average picks: they clearly possess starting caliber talent for the NFL, but none are world beaters, and they’ve had a lot of ups and downs.
LaRon Landry is looking like an exceptional talent, but it’s early to say. Either way, he’s a solid pick who could eventually be great.
Devin Thomas – it’s too early, but I’d grade it as below average. He’s taken a long time to adjust after most said he’d be the wideout most ready for the NFL day one, and he may turn out to be a bust.
I count 1 great pick, 1 solid pick, 3 average picks, 1 below average pick, 1 awful pick and 1 unwise first rounder trade for an average wide receiver.
Gotta say: a lot of the same mistakes.
December 19th, 2008 at 1:54 PM
As much as I like Holmgrenm, I can’t support his hiring for any position at this moment. I would agrue that regardless of how the last two games go Zorn’s exceeded expectations. If Snyder was to bring in Holmgren as the head coach and demote Zorn to offensive cordinator, everyone with an opinion will begin to frown on Zorn. People would say that he couldn’t hack it as a head coach and I’m sure he would catch blame the first time the offense began to struggle. Zorn’s been a spark for this team – a team that really just needs a leader on offense. Unfortunately, Portis isn’t that type of person and Campbell might not be either.
Cerrato has to go, but we can do better than Holmgren in that spot.
The only move I would support (and I know Skin’s fans don’t want to hear it) would be to bring Cowher in as head coach and GM. But the best move would be to give Zorn another year with Campbell and see how well they can develop together. If it doesn’t work, we still need two years of drafting linemen to rebuild anyways…
December 19th, 2008 at 3:15 PM
One other minor point: everyone in the media and on the radio keeps talking about Dan Snyder as if he’s a hair-trigger firing kind of guy. But if you examine his activities for the past seven years, you see that if anything, he’s overcompensating in the other direction.
The last and (to this day) only head coach he fired was Norv Turner. In 2001, he tried to make Schottenheimer change his assistant coaches after that 8-8 year, and Schottenheimer quit. Then after rehiring Vinny and Spurrier, the Ole Ballcoach quit from the golf course. Then after bringing Gibbs out of retirement, Gibbs quit with one year left on his contract. Then Snyder took so long to decide on a head coach after it seemed like Cowher was out of the question, he was basically forced to pick between a retread (Mariucci, Fassel) and a Hail Mary (Zorn).
Point is, I feel like Snyder got hit so hard by the initial accusations of hair-trigger responses, he’s overcompensated in the other direction – hell, even after the O-Line has fallen apart, Buges’ job is probably still secure. And that’s why I don’t think Zorn or Vinny are going anywhere.